THE
CASE OF MARGARET
Margaret's
Conflicting Voices
Care for Me voice in italics.
Caretaker
voice (the community representative) in bold.
APES
Stage 3.0: Problem Statement/Clarification
Session 1:
lines 295-314
Margaret: you know, my husband is a very nice person.
he's a very easy going person you know.
but I mean he's wrapped up in his job
and its just that I-I know I don't understand
it enough you know.
like I just sort of feel like
'hey I've been giving giving giving to kids
and the husband for thirty odd years
when is it going to be my turn?'
and that sounds awfully selfish I know
but +maybe (laughs)
Therapist:
well I'm not sure (incomprehensible)+
your
sense that you have been giving
especially
in that year that everything happened all at once.
Margaret: mm-hm.
Therapist: and kind of now waiting to get something back and not just getting it.
Margaret: yeah. - - -
and as I say I feel that's not right you know.
I should be just rela- taking things as they
come you know .
but I don't seem to be
I seem to have a very negative attitude to
things you know.
Therapist: yeah. so you'd like it to be different.
Margaret: mm-hm.
APES Substage 3.2: Rapid Cross-Fire
Session 3: lines 294-334
Margaret: 'you
know I've been nurturing people for thirty odd years;
isn't it about damn time someone
started nurturing me?'
Therapist: mm-hm.
Margaret: you
know that when you've always got your husband's supper,
it’s very difficult to change…
to say: 'get your own’…
but he's the one who's ruined the
routine,
not me
why should I stop what I'm doing?
Therapist: right.
Margaret: but
I still felt I should do it. (laughs)
because this is my generation you
know,
…but I resented doing it.
so I kind of I'm sort of resolving that as I go along.
Session 4: lines 414-436
Therapist: so I don't know
maybe you haven't actually gone
(client blows nose) in
and been able to really tell him how
you feel about it?
Margaret: no. not
really.
as
I say I think you know -
I-I
think he just he just doesn't know what to do anymore.
and
I think what he does - is
he
blocks it out.
I
really think this is what happened
because
he doesn't know what to do so -
you
know. so I think he's caught -
he's
caught between his job and me. you know and.
Therapist: mm-hm.
so almost when you see it from his
perspective maybe he is kind of caught.
Margaret: yeah. he's
caught.
I
mean he has - so much to do right now.
and
he like he's dealing with people.
he's
trying to like he's trying to relocate staff
and
you know relocate jobs and one thing and another. and - -
I
can sympathize - -
and
a few years ago I might have been able to handle it better. -
but
I just find that I've because a very
/
not to myself
I'm
thinking well what about me?
Therapist: yeah.
Margaret:
you know and (incomprehensible)
maybe I'm feeling guilty because of that.
Therapist: so something has changed
for you.
Margaret: mm-hm.
Therapist: it's like
maybe a few years ago I could accept this
but
now I want something for me.
Margaret: mm-hm.
APES
Substage 3.4: Entitlement
Session 4: lines 579-592
Margaret: I
became very resentful you know
And I said
'you just wait
a minute…
I'm your wife
my feelings are important too…
I just needed you as a sounding
board'.
he said,
"don't forget M,
if you want a sounding board,
you have to be prepared for an opinion too…
you may be wrong".
and I said
"well
maybe you do have a point" (laughs).
but 'at the same time,
that's not really what I want'.
Therapist: right.
Margaret: …I
just want somebody to just sit there and listen.
Therapist: yeah.
Margaret:
just like I do with you, you know.
Session 7: lines 162-185
Margaret: … I just
said 'oh I haven't seen [the neighbor's] truck move for a while.
I
wonder if they're away'.
and
before I could finish what I was saying, [my husband] said
'no.
I talked to [the neighbor] and they're not going away until the end of
February'.
and
he like he interrupted me. - -
and
you know, [therapist]
I
don't know what came over me
but
you know I just lost it completely.
I:
got: so: angry: - and: I: was: (laughing) / /
I
was yelling at him
'don't
you dare interrupt me'.
and
it was just it was stupid.
but
it was just -
I
couldn't hold myself in I was so angry and so incensed:
that
you know that he dared to interrupt me.
and
he said 'but Margaret, why didn't you just say "shut-up, [husband], I was
talking"?' (laughs)
it
would have been so simple
but
you know, [Therapist] I couldn't.
I
was just and I don't know whether it was - - reaction - or what it was.
but
I was just I was so angry.
I
said 'you know you've been doing this to me'
and
actually [my husband] does have a habit - he anticipates what you're going to
say.
and
I said you know 'you've been doing this to me for so long [husband]'
and
I said 'I'm not taking it any more'.
and
I was actually I was literally screaming! at him.
and
we pulled in to the church parking lot (slight laugh)
and
I was just shaking.
I
was so mad.
and
- - um (weepy) I said I don't think I can go into church
I
don't think I can sit you know.
APES Substage 3.6: Respect and Attention
Session 8: lines 839-857
Margaret: this
is basically what I'm trying to do [husband].
"I [want to] sound off to
you."
but he became so defensive…
I said "it's like this power
struggle between us"
Therapist: mm-hm.+
Margaret: "I'm
not trying to start anything."
"I just wanted someone to
bounce it off…
some moral support
that was all."
Session 9: lines 1071-1095
The underlined text represents the beginning of a joint
understanding.
Margaret: …I can sympathize with
[my husband]in many ways too
and, and yet you
sort of find like, when you get his reaction to things,
like, now the other night, what was
it?
he started to tell me something
and then I said - -
and I said this sort of half kidding,
you know
like "ah come on" I said
"these guys are giving you some of baloney"
or something like that.
and he said "well wait until I
finish" you know.
and I thought, I guess I'm doing to
him what I used to +say
Therapist: hm.
Margaret: you know.
and I said "well, I'm
sorry."
and ah, he said "well,
okay."
and, this is very unlike [my husband]
because he had always been so even
tempered you know.
and he would just sit there.
but I guess a lot of these things are
bothering him too you know.
and then, after I did it,
and you know, after supper
and I was sort of cleaning up,
and I thought,
well, I guess, Margaret;
I was angry because he /,
like it made me feel silly +you know
Therapist: mm-hm.+
Margaret: and he said "well wait
till I'm finished."
I thought, oh, you know
and I felt silly.
and then I, you know I thought,
well, instead of thinking of
yourself, think of how he felt.
I mean I must have
made him feel sort of stupid
+when I said
Therapist: mm-hm.+
Margaret: "oh come on"
you know like, I don't believe this
+you know
Therapist: mm-hm.+
Margaret: but, I find, our reactions
to things are a little different
but, um, I can be a little more
understanding than I used to be.
APES
Substage 3.8: Joint Search for Understanding
Session 10:
458-797
Margaret: I
just nagged him!
I was actually looking for things
to nag him about.
Therapist: mm-hm.
Margaret: and
I thought, why am I like this?
I know I'm contributing to this,
sort of
I guess maybe he just gets tired
of listening to me
and shuts me out…
(lines
458-465)
Therapist: and yet, and there are probably things he's doing
to contribute to the way they are now,
but you're saying but there are also things I do
Margaret: mm-hm…
(lines 473-477)
he was trying to help me you
know…
(lines 596-597)
it's almost like verbal abuse that
I was giving him
and I feel bad-
but I do it and I can't stop
myself…
(lines 617-619)
I think sometimes he shuts me out
because I'm sure it's very painful
for him too you know.
maybe this is just his way of
coping:
he just shuts me out.
and then of course I become more frustrated.
Session 11: lines 941-964
Margaret: mm-hm. so this is how I, you know,
I mean as I say,
I'll admit like, it really was a bad
time
and as I say,
part of it was my fault too,
I guess maybe I pushed [my husband]
away in a lot of ways
so that he got to the point he thought
okay, that's the way she feels,
she can, I'm not gonna, you know, try
any more.
even now he's very careful what he
says about my family (laughs).
Therapist: so somehow that started
this kind of thing
where he was afraid to maybe say,
or get involved?
Margaret:
mm-hm.
Therapist: it was more like, he
thought you wanted him to keep his distance?
Margaret: yeah, I think yeah.
and and I think,
and then when something like that
happens it leads to other things too, you know, like quite unwittingly I think
people just say,
okay fine enough, if that's the way
she wants it, or
Therapist: yeah maybe he, just kind
of,
I can imagine him maybe just getting
confused about what you did want
Margaret: yeah.
Therapist: just kind of feeling like,
maybe you need some space
when it sounds like probably that was
the last thing you really wanted.
Margaret: yeah.
I just needed somebody.
APES
Stage 4.0: Understanding/Insight
Session 11: lines 1100-1123
Margaret: ….I
never thought about it this way until now but,
maybe, he felt so left out too,
maybe!
he just felt left out.
Therapist: when…[you] were consumed with what was going
on with your family…
maybe he felt, left out
and maybe helpless.
Margaret: yeah,
you know I never looked at it that way before.
I just always…had this feeling
of resentment
that my, my sole support (slight
laugh) wasn't there
Therapist: uh-huh, like he should have supported you
more.
Margaret: yeah,
and maybe !he just felt left out
you know that,
as I say, I was so consumed with
my parents,
that maybe I pushed him out of my
life?…
Therapist: maybe he didn't know how to help or?
Margaret: yeah.
Therapist: maybe he didn't know what you needed at the
time
Margaret: …yeah,
you know, I never thought of it that way,
isn't that strange,
…I guess maybe I was just so
angry
and so let down and, you know
Therapist: and maybe there was a lot of hurt there that
wasn't being expressed too
Progress
in Later Sessions
Session
16: lines 138-161
Therapist:
So that was new for you.
To be able to kind of relax and just let it flow.
Margaret:
Mm-hm.
And I thought, fine.
And then I thought, if
anything happens it's not, you know,
someone else can worry about it.
I just sort
of took this attitude, like okay,
there's
people taking care of things at the church
and there's people
taking care of things at the hotel,
and so what
(laughs).
Therapist:
So somehow in the past you might have,
I guess, worried or fretted?
Margaret:
…I know I would have been a wreck.
Therapist:
+Uhuh.
Margaret:
And actually to be perfectly truthful with you,
I really enjoyed
myself.
I had a good day.
THE CASE OF LISA
Lisa’s Conflicting Voices
Resentful
Fighter in italics.
Empathic
Supporter in bold.
APES Stage 3.0: Problem Statement/Clarification
Session
2: lines 283-292
Therapist:
so there's this part of you that really feels
that,
strong resentment towards her
Lisa:
yeah
yeah,
and then the other part wants to just,
you know, forgive and carry one
(T. mm hm)
Therapist:
so those are likely conflicting forces with you right,
like almost like two complete discrepant voices
that one's saying 'no no no she should pay'
Lisa:
yeah
and the other is like, you know,
'forgive she's your mother and she's human,
she makes mistakes too'
(T. uh huh)
- - I feel like I'm caught
–
like a yo yo (laugh) you know,
going back and forth (T. uh huh) um
- - - and it feels good to finally let that out.
APES Substage 3.2: Rapid Cross-Fire
Session
2: lines 97-110
Therapist: yeah, so when you say anger
it's-it's like you feel a resentment
towards your mother for having--
Lisa:
yes and no,
um, I guess I understand it now,
but the feelings are still there
about it
Therapist: uh huh, it's like you can
have an understanding, like a--
Lisa:
well I know that they were both working at the time
and you know, try to you know, pay
a house and
- - that's why, I guess, where I
came in as the provider
(T. mm hm)
Therapist: so in some ways it makes
some sense to you,
or you understand that you were needed
Lisa: yes
I understand it
Therapist: that you were needed (C: right) - and
Lisa:
and yet, why no time to be a child and-and play and
Session
5: lines 107-123
Lisa:
right, and then I guess sometimes I
feel guilty,
that I should be,
supporting more,
(T. um hum)
- but then what about
my needs
Therapist:
yeah, so then you go back there
it's like well what about me right
(Lisa: yeah)
- what about what I need
Lisa:
that's
right - yeah,
what, what I feel is
comfortable inside me
and (T. um hum), and
for my kids and (T. um hum)
and I deserve this
and (T. um hum)
I'm a person and I'm
going to uh, look after myself
- - - but, I feel like
I'm abandoning him,
like, as a wife I
shouldn't
Therapist:
- yeah, but it's just this thing telling you (Lisa: um hum)
- if you were a good wife you would
stick by him
Lisa:
yeah
- yeah, it's almost like I would allow him
- I should allow him
to,
to treat me this way,
and and do these
things to me (T. um hum)
and just be there for
him (T. um hum)